Porsche 934 Turbo RSR Jägermeister

Neuling
Schöner Jägermeister-Porsche!

Dennis
Danke😉

Spanjaard
very nice!

Alexander Grivonev
Schönes Teil 👍 Bin auch gerade dabei, den zu bauen. Womit hast Du lackiert?

Dennis
Danke.

Das ist Tamyia X-6 orange, Klarlack Zero Daimond finish 2k. Wobei ich das X-6 im nachhinein zu hell finde.

Habe bei meinem Jägermeister M3 Tamiyas LP-51 pure orange benutzt und finde diese Farbe deutlich stimmiger...

Alexander Grivonev
Habe für meinen TS-12 genommen, was wiederum zu dunkel ist. ZP bietet ja Jägermeister Orange an was ich auch beim ersten Lackierversuch genommen habe. Habe da leider ein kleines Fiasko erlebt, der Klarlack hat sich bis zum Kunststoff durchgefressen und diesen angegriffen. Musste alles abwaschen und habe beim zweiten Anlauf zur sicheren Variante gegriffen.

Dennis
TS-12 habe ich hier auch noch. Allerdings noch unbenutzt.

Mit Zero-Paints habe ich auch öfters Probleme: die Texturfarben ziehen sich inkl. Grundierung zusammen bzw. "reissen" auf bis zum Plastik (sieht man beim Fahrersitz im Audi-Baubericht) Die normalen Farben "schrumpeln" und greifen den Kunstoff durch die Grundierung an.

-> Hatte nun schon zwei Modelle die dadurch hoffnungslos zerstört wurden. Seitdem kauf ich die nicht mehr und nutze wieder komplett Tamiya. Besonders die LP Farben sind spitze (aber teuer!)

Versuche als Klarlack mal Tamiya LP-9 in oder Gunze Mr. Super Clear dekantiert oder direkt aus der Dose. Die sind wirklich super und man erlebt keine bösen Überraschungen...

Spanjaard
i have seen a couple of builds with similar problems with Zero paints. paint eating the plastic. i have read here that you need to do several layers of paint, extremely thin, to avoid this kind of problem. I have not yet tried Zero paints, but I have some that i intend to use. But I will certainly do some tests before I use them in a finished model...

Dennis
Strange thing with those Zero paints is that not all of them behave in that way.

For Example:
i have used ZP pure brilliant white on many and semi gloss black on all of my builds so far. Those colors work perfectly. ZP Kevlar is difficult (sometimes ok and sometimes not), Italian red has destroyed 2 complete Bodys, textured red cracks every time when it dries up, textured black again is perfect.

Primer is allways the same, color applied in 5-6 thin to very thin Layers with at least 5-10 Minutes between crosscoats.

Could not figure out what causes the problem.

Martin Oostrom
Guess who has received 5 bottles of Zero Paints yesterday...
Anyway, the Porsche looks brilliant!

Alexander Grivonev
The problem with ZP is they are real automotive colours and normally not suitable for the sensitive Styrene plastic because the paints and especially the thinners inside are too aggressive.

For my 934 I used Tamiya Surface primer and ZP basecoat. I noticed on the chassis which is also orange that it is starting eating the plastic when applied in wet layers so I went with several thin layers for the body. Worked fine. But then I applied 2K clearcoat and boom, ate right through to the plastic, had to strip it all. I did the exact same method for my Lambo Countach and had no problems there whatsoever. Tells me that some tipes of styrene are more sensitive thatn others.

TL;DR you need to protect the plastic from the subsequent coats and this is best done with a 2K primer. As a matter of fact I am doing some tests r/n and getting some great results. The great thing about 2K materials is that when they are dry they are chemically bound and absolutely indifferent to what paints you apply on top. They do not dissolve and protect the plastic.

Dennis
Talking about 2k primer: wich one are you using? Sounds interesting and worth a shot.

Alexander Grivonev
I researched for a bit and decided to go with "Avo": avo-autolack.de/ You find all their stuff on eBay. Seems to be a good quality for a reasonable price. All 2K primers (and clearcotes) are essentially the same anyway regardless the manufacturer, you don't need to go with this particular one. You find on eBay some other brands like "Troton" but it is all essentially the same stuff (I worked in a car paint shop a couple of years, the profession I learned)

So I purchased a 2K HS Acrylfüller 4:1 Set and a 2K Klarlack Spezial Set, did a couple of tests. First tried the filler with the native thinner and it attacked the plastic, what I already anicipated, because it is chemically just too aggressive for Polystyrene. Then tried to replaced it with Mr. Color Leveling Thinner (because it is not too aggressive since it is meant for modeling but still is lacquer stuff) and it worked perfectly! For both the filler and Clear. No attacking the plastic, the primer was dry after 3 hours. Did a WET basecoat with automotive lacquer (same stuff as Zero Paint), the filler was absolutely unimpressed and the plastic surface was protected. Coated everything with the Clear (tried both the native thinner and Mr. Color Leveling) Both PERFECT. 2 wet coats of basepaint, 2 wet coats of clear. 5-10 minutes drying time inbetween.

In my opinion going for the 2K filler solution solves probably 80-90% of all problems because the 2K filler does not give a damn what you spray over it, the plastic will not be attacked. You don't need to go with the 2K clear but the filler is a must imho.

Spanjaard
What about zero paints primer? Anybody has used it?

Dennis
Thanks Alexander. I followed your suggestion and got me the Acrylfüller, Klarlack Spezial and some mr. Thinner leveling thinner. Pricing of primer and clear is ridiculous low for the quantity you get (18€ for 1.5 Liters of clear - for a 1/24 scale car I use 8ml max) Question is how long will be the shelf life of the hardener.

I guess my airbrush equipment with 0.4 nozzle will be adequate? What thinner ratio do you recommend?

I really do like to try new stuff 🙂

Alexander Grivonev
Wow, you don't mess around 👍

The filler is very thick, so don't be shocked at first. You mix it 4:1 with the hardener. (I realize right now I did a 2:1 ratio because I was used to it from the clear, but it worked anyway) To this mixture you will need to add at least 3-4 parts of thinner. Probably more, you have to test yourself how you like it. It like mine fairly thin so it applies more smoothly. I use small disposable 30ml cups with a scale to mix my stuff. Filler to around 7, hardener to 10, thinner to the brim and I add ususally a little gulp for the last coat to make it more fluid.

Hardener shelf life will be an issue. Should be ok for about a year.

I used a H&S Evolution with a 0,4 nozzle and the big 50 ml cup which makes the life a lot easier, worked fine. The filler dries fairly quick, don't even bother with mist coats, it will make the surface only rough. Give it 2-3 good wet coats and blow air on it inbetween. Just try for yourself, I am glad to help if you have questions. You can PM me as well.

Alexander Grivonev
Spanjaard, I did not use ZP primers before but I have seen recently they also offer 2K primers. For 10 times the price you can buy on eBay. I for myself will not bother anymore with 1K stuff, it is too prone to misbehave and do weird sh*t

Dennis
Klotzen, nicht kleckern :-D

Thanks for your advice! I am very eager to see how this stuff works out...

Spanjaard
thanks a lot Alexander. yeah, that is the usual in modelling stuff. break it in little packages and multiply the price by 10..... 🙁

Martin Oostrom
1,5 litre? At 15ml per build (I mess up a-lot) that is a 100 builds. I don't do that many in a year, considering the shelf life of the stuff.
I think I'll pay the extra price, to sooth my conscience about hurting nature by using chemicals.

Alexander Grivonev
ZP definitely discovered a great business idea there. As a car paint shop you buy this stuff in bulk, there are up to 7,5kg pots of fillers, clears an so on. Distribute it into small jars and sell it for 10-20x the price to unsuspecing modelers. They happily pay the price because 2K is the REAL stuff which is used by professionals to paint cars. You've created a gold mine👍

Spanjaard
no, they just copied many others doing the same 😄

Alexander Grivonev
capitalism ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Dennis
Thats the way it goes: put a "hobby specific" label on your product and milk the cust... err, cow 😉

Martin Oostrom
Sorry for the continued highjack Dennis.
Do I understand correct Alex: The thinner makes the Zero Paints too hot. Does that apply for the 2K gloss as well? And would replacing the ZP thinner with Mr Self levelling thinner solve that (in the 2K)?
And would it be possible to use the 2K gloss as a primer, with the Mr SLT?

Dennis
No problem Martin. This very interesting for me as well. So please feel free.

Alexander Grivonev
I was talking about generic 2K stuff from eBay where the thinner is too hot for Polyester plastic. I do believe the guys from ZP did their homework and already made sure the thinners are applicable for it. I personally worked just once with ZP (on my Mercedes SLR) and had no problems whatsoever, neither the basepaints over Tamiya Primer, nor the 2K clear over it. I am pretty sure tho you can use Leveling Thinner as replacement, just give it a try if you had any problems with the ZP thinner being "too hot"

In theory you can use 2K gloss as a primer, if you want a layer between the plastic and the subsequent layers of paint. Just make sure the thinner is not too hot since you are applying it directly on the plastic and sand the glossy surface after that. Other than that it is chemically the same stuff as the 2K primer with the difference that it is transparent and has a bit less of filling properties.

Martin Oostrom
👍 Clear and to the point answers, Quick too!