MiG-21F-13 - Vietnam
Kommentare
David R. MeizosoPic 9 just made my day!
Incredibly poor mold work here, mate. Would never expect this in a 2017 kit. Modelsvit has actually some pretty good Mirages out there that look amazing!
Oliver ZwienerSelten, dass ich am Sonntag morgen schon lache, aber Bild 10 kommt überraschend gut. Great Cinema - follwing ...
MariusDanke Oliver, der Mülleimer ist ein sehr wichtiger Freund des Modellbauers, der wird aber leider so gut wie nie gezeigt. Naja, der Frust war groß mit dem ersten Bausatz.
Lex JassiesLooking very good. Nice camouflage 👍
Reminds me that I also still have this model of Eduard half finished for the Mig 21 Group build.
I also also want to finish this in North Vietnamese livery.
Sylvain Vernierdespite the difficulties, it will be a success.
the unusual camo schem looks great
MariusThank you guys!
I have never seen this exact aircraft done as a model by anyone else so far, so it's just my interpretation of the only available photograph. I guess it's so far unique, but hopefully more people will give it a try even in larger scales.
Now repairs, post-shading and more washes are applied and it looks so much better and more realistic than in the last picture. Updates will follow.
@Lukasz: Yes, it was freehand airbrush painted and this time without nasty accidents
@Lex: The Eduard kit is superb. Which exact aircraft would you like to reproduce? If it's going to be the famous "5015", be careful with the painting, since the instructions from Eduard are wrong.
Łukasz GlińskiImpressive (and in 72nd!) - what made you adding the tan on top? Looking at the photo I'd go only for NMF + green + brown combo.
Lex Jassies@Marius,
I made a glitch when I wrote "I have this kit". In reality I have the 1:48 scale Eduard kit. Also says something about how I look at your construction 👍
I'm planning making the two tone green 5040 with green underside. See picture in my "wall"
Marius@Lukasz:
You opened the Pandora's box. I will write a longer answer, since maybe someone at some later point might be interested or might have more exact information.
I will try to divide the answer in two:
#1. Why I think it there was no NMF backround on top, but instead "tan/beige":
- I have to admit I started with the color profile and just believed it as it was at the beginning . The source of the profile ("MiG-21 aces of the Vietnam War" by Istvan Toperczer, Osprey) contains numerous interviews with the pilot (Nhat Chieu) and I assumed that maybe there was this additional information which was also known/discussed, but not precisely described in the main text of the book beside the color profile (again, just an assumption).
- While looking at the photograph at the bright background between the painted stripes, I can no longer see any colour variations between the "metallic" panels on the upper half, which right in front of the wing's leading edge should have been visible in my view (two darker corroguard access panels), if it had been a NMF background. Also, I can no longer see stencils on the upper half (which are visible below). Also, just beneath and a bit in front of the first digit "4" there is a quite clear and visible change in the colours (a small horizontal separation line), which coincides to where the furthermost "green" stripe stops as well. But this entire last argument can be the result of optical illusions due to the insufficient detail of the photograph, so I am not 100% there was any tan, but I am even less sure that it was a NMF background.
- by eliminating the option of NMF, I assumed through eliminating other unlikely colours, that it must have been some shad of tan.
Marius@Lukasz:
#2. Why I think the second color of the stripes is also some green and not brown:
- there is close to no original color photograph of VPAF aircraft from the Vietnam War. All we have are black and white pictures, later colorizations and some interviews with pilots/people involved in the events back then. I have never seen any text, descriptions from interviews or statements that the colour brown was ever used for camouflage by the VPAF. Not even for repainted museum pieces of the VPAF.
- there is only once a mention of "brown" in the case of VPAF and that is for the MiG-17F number 2072. In the very first book of Istvan Toperczer about the VPAF ("Air War over North Vietnam", Squadron/Signal Publications), he shows this profile:
[img1]
Nevertheless, much later, after more travels, interviews and research, he publishes the "MiG-17 and MiG-19 units of the Vietnam War", Osprey Combat Aircraft, where the known MiG-17F red 2072 is reworked (also on my list at some point) and looks like this:
[img1]
In his book you have several high resolution original black and white photographs of the MiG-17F "2072", where it's really obvious that the "dots" are indeed very brigth in colour and if they in any way "brown", it has to be a bright "brown", similar to the "brown" used by the USAF aircraft in Vietnam or even lighter.
So with "brown", the author actually meant that "tan" shade. There were probably more of those VPAF MiG-17s with that "tan" colour as seen in some colour profiles from the Internet, but I haven't seen photographic proof for all of those wildly camouflaged MiG-17s.
Bottom line, there is really no proof that the VPAF ever used brown for camouflage painting of its aircraft during the Vietnam War. You only had that "Tan/Beige" and two shades of green. Which exact shades of green there were, is a again different discussion.
Otherwise, the MiG-21F-13 "red 4426" might be so far the only known VPAF MiG-21 with a different camouflage colour other than the two typical shades of green, so that might be an argument against my logic. Except of course those MiG-21PFMs delivered directly from USSR Air Units (like this one: MiG-21PFM (Eduard 7454, 1:72))
Overall, I am no expert on VPAF colours, I have just seen plenty of photographs and read a couple of books on the matter, but books are not perfect and pictures are all black and white, so I might be wrong as well. If anybody has more information or a different opinion/guess, I would be really glad to find out.
Łukasz GlińskiOh wow, it was a Pandora's box indeed. While I agreed on the brown stripe topic from the very start, I have to admit the lack of stencils makes your approach v.legit 👍
MariusThank you guys, now I can finally call it finished.
Of course I am not 100% how this aircraft really looked like in the end, but I hope this project inspired other people with more knowledge.
Sylvain VernierI think you are not so far from the truth. The Pandora's box is now open, and your comments are very interesting. Your build too 👍
MariusThank you Cuajete and Sylvain for the interest and of course to everybody else who stopped by and liked the album.
The project was started 1 year ago and with all the failures midway, I wasn't sure until recently if this will ever become something.
Mike SiemersVery nice job and interesting paint scheme. I love the Mig-21 collection at the end. I have the Revell Mig-21 F-13 that I plan in doing in N. Vietnamese colors, and really like the two tone green one on the left, can't decide if I want to do that or the natural metal finish with the green splotches. Beautiful job.
Simon NagorsnikFinally done after a year?
That seems familiar to me.
But in the end it paid off!
You've a really nice collection there!
MariusThank you Simon and Mike!
@Simon: this year I had two projects which I ruined in a very advanced phase and then started again from scratch: this one, and the Egyptian PFM (MiG-21PFM - Egypt - 1973 | Album by Redicus (1:72)). The Egyptian one was actually ready when I droped it and destroyed it👍(the final model from the album is therefore the second iteration). The frustration and the wasted time...so 1 year is not bad as long the finish line is crossed ✌️. I guess you're also having that extraordinary "modelling resiliance". Conquer the pain with more pain. 😄
@Mike: the Revell MiG-21F-13 in 1:72 needs plenty of additions in order to make it really nice. One of the most annoying defects is found at the rear glass part behind the cockpit. It has several nasty deep scratches (in all kits) which require so much unnecessary work to repair. Otherwise, you can also just build it out of box. The VPAF MiG-21F-13s were all in NMF, except this "red 4426" of mine. There might have been several other painted VPAF MiG-21F-13, but there is no photographic evidence of that so far. The other two VPAF MiG-21s you saw in my album above are PFM versions, which are originating from the Eduard kit (highly recommended). Overall, the VPAF received during the Vietnam War the F-13, PF, PFM and MF versions of the MiG-21 (whereas the MF was received very late and saw little to no action). The PFM was by far the most numerous variant used by North Vietnam and you can choose between several nicely painted ones. If you are interested in the famous "red 5015", I have a very rare close up historical photograph of the aircraft, revealing plenty of interesting details.
Calvin GiffordSure wish I had seen this build thread BEFORE I bought mine! Perhaps I may have lucked out with a better fitting kit, if not maybe use it in a 'belly landing' diorama (which I was going to use a "Battle Damaged" Lindberg for!). C'est la vie!!
Bernhard PetheSauber recherchierter Modellbau, gefällt mir sehr gut. 👍
Das die F13 von Modelsvit so schlecht ist, hat mich gewundert, hätte ich jetzt nicht gedacht. Hab ich noch liegen, muss ich mir merken. Ich hatte 2004 mal einen Testshoot von Revell bauen dürfen. Der hatte auch seine Fehler, die man aber gut beseitigen konnte.
ffmc.de/modelle/flugi/flugi_f13/flugi_f13.html
MariusThank you all for stopping by and leaving a comment.
@Calvin: maybe there is no need to abandon that kit. While the fit is indeed very bad, maybe it also depends on the steps and sequence you are choosing. I guess this is why Sylvain here managed to finish a very beautiful model out of that kit:
MiG21F Modelsvit OOB | Album by maddog69 (1:72)
As already said several times, the overall shapes and details of the Modelsvit kit are definitely superior to the Revell kit. The canopy/clear parts of the Modelsvit kit are a bit blurry and not that crisp, but hey, you have deep scratches due to mold defects in the rear glas part of the Revell kit too.The Modelsvit one is a short-run and just horrendous to build, that's "all".
@Bernhard
Danke sehr! Mir ist die Geschichte dahinten sogar wichtiger als das Modell in sich, sonst klebe ich nur Kunststoff zusammen 🙂. Deshalb freut es mich sehr, wenn jemand ein bisschen davon motiviert ist oder Interesse dafür zeigt.
Sonst ist dein Modell von damals sehr schön gemacht!
Trotz den Problemen und Ungenauigkeiten ist meiner Meinung nach der Revell Bausatz immer noch der beste Startpunkt oder die Referenz für ein F-13 in 1:72. Zumindest bis das F-13 von Eduard in 2-3 Jahren auf den Markt kommt.
Sylvain VernierIndeed, I didn't have any assembly problem, except behind the front well. By luck, the two guns have hidden the ugly joint. As stated by Marius, the detail of level is far superior than the Revell F-13. But it was time consuming to clean all the parts.
Maybe the original mold has not aged well. 🤔
in spite of all the problems encountered here, the result is splendid 👍
Album info
In 1965 at the onset of the Vietnam War, the Vietnam People's Air Force (VPAF) had only 36 MiG-17s and a similar number of qualified pilots, which increased to 180 MiGs (-17, -19, -21) and 72 pilots by 1968. The first deliveries of MiG-21s started in 1965.
The VPAF MiG-21F-13s, PFs or PFMs were all delivered from the USSR unpainted and in their natural metal finish with stencils on top. The combat experience has shown the necessity of a camouflage painting when flying over the Vietnamese jungle instead of the shiny metallic finish. Also, the lack of airfield shelters during the early years meant that the metallic MiGs were easily spotted by reconainassance missions. Without any norms or standards, paint was spontaneously applied on the airfields with not one aircraft looking like the other. Beige/tan and at least two different shades of green were applied depending on what was available. There were of course some exceptions when due to high atrittion the USSR made some emergency deliveries of MiG-21s from Soviet air units already wearing camouflage.
The MiG-21F-13 "red 4426" depicted as my subject was flown in 1967 during the Vietnam War by the VPAF ace Nguyen Nhat Chieu, credited by VPAF records with 6 kills. At the very beginning of the Vietnam War in 1965, Nguyen Nhat Chieu was assigned to the 921st Regiment flying MiG-17s. On the 20th of September 1965, Nhat Chieu was flying with a group of four MiG-17Fs when four US Navy F-4s were engaged North-East of Hanoi close to the Chinese border. He claimed his first air kill that day using cannon fire, but the US Navy records show no corresponding official combat loss.
He converted to the MiG-21 months later in 1966. During the air engagements of 1966, the VPAF lead 'Fishbed' in each pair was equipped with two infrared-guided R-3S AAMs, while the wingman's aircraft carried two rocket pods containing unguided high-explosive fragmentation S-5M rockets (from an UB-16-57 rocket pod). On the 7th of July 1966 Nguyen Nhat Chieu's wingman, Tran Ngoc Siu shot down a F-105D with two rocket salvos fired from ranges of 500m and 200 m to claim the VPAF's first aerial victory over a US aircraft using unguided rockets. USAF loss records attributed the loss to AAA.
He claimed his second victory (one F-4C) with a R-3S missile on the 20th of May 1967 while flying a MiG-21, although USAF records attributed the loss to 85 mm AAA. His third and fourth air victories were achieved on the 23rd August 1967 while flying in formation with the ace Nguyen Van Coc (of the later famous red "5015" - MiG-21PFM - Vietnam - 1968 | Album by Redicus (1:72)) intercepting a large group of 40 USAF aircraft flying North from over Laos. Chieu downed two F-4Ds using both of the R-3S missiles. The last loss was credited by USAF records to the AAA. He claimed his fifth air victory on the 7th October 1967, when together again with Van Coc he pursued a formation of F-105s and fired an R-3S missile that hit one F-105F "Wild Weasel". The destruction of the jet made Chieu an ace, although USAF records attributed the loss again to 85 mm AAA.
Chieu claimed his sixth and last victory on the 29th October 1967, while flying the MiG-21F-13 "4426". While intercepting a formation of F-4s, he fired an R-3S, which detonated near one of the F-4s, causing it to trail smoke. However, according to USAF records, no F-4s were lost on this date.
Currently, there is only one known photograph of the "red 4426". In this one photograph, the underside seems unpainted and kept in the natural metal with visible stencils. The top side appears to be painted with a beige/tan colour on top of which camouflage stripes were applied. Although a color profile/reproduction from "MiG-21 Aces of the Vietnam War" by Istvan Toperczer suggests that all stripes were of the same green tone, the original black and white photograph suggests that every second camouflage stripe was of a different colour. My intuition assumed brown at first for this second stripe, but I have never seen or heard of any brown camouflage color on any VPAF aircraft so far. The second color can only be light green, since only tan/beige, light green and dark green were commonly used for camouflage painting by the VPAF. My educated guess assumes that both green colors should basically be the same as the ones applied on the famous VPAF MiG-21PFM "5015" (MiG-21PFM - Vietnam - 1968 | Album by Redicus (1:72))
While Nhat Chieu did survive the war and was interviewed by Ivan Toperczer, the subsequent fate of the MiG-21F-13 "red 4426" is not known.
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